I’m open minded. I’m secure in who I am. I don’t care what you think about me. So, I’m not afraid to admit I have friends who identify as Calvinist.
But, I read this and wondered what they would think…
First, it is clear that salvation, like the reign of God consists in human participation in the very life and power of God… Salvation is our human participation in the being, life, freedom, and love which is God.
– Luttenberger from An Introduction to Christology
Hell, I read that and wondered what I thought!
I don’t know, man. Is the reign of God reliant on the participation of humans? Can salvation be defined as my participation with God – instead of 100% the work of God?
Jesuits will jack with your head.
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May 22, 2008 at 7:41 pm
rich
Hey Jims, what’s a Calvinist?… for those inquiring minds that want to know. I missed that history class, but I know what you’re talking about here has something to do with eternal salvation, once-saved-always-saved, that sort of thing right!?! I mean come-on… God knows everything even the future, so he KNOWs who will accept salvation. So, even if we don’t, we treat everyone the same and just do good to and with everyone. That’s my motto. It will all work out in the wash (or the cleansing.)
May 22, 2008 at 9:25 pm
jimfox
Calvinism is very complex. One of the things that most complicates it is that Calvin (the historical figure) wouldn’t agree with some of modern Calvinism – but, that’s another topic. Calvinism, think TULIP. The most polarizing letters are P for Predestination which you alluded to and T for Total Depravity.
So, for the purposes of this post, the idea that I can’t even choose to follow God, let alone participate in salvation or the reign of God.
One more thing… I don’t believe in original sin, either.
May 22, 2008 at 9:49 pm
rich
Thanks for the definition. So, that means that if we believe in T. P. (and we all know what that can be used for) that means we can say “screw you” to everyone who God hasn’t chosen. And, I know who God has chosen because they have the same doctrine I do. It sounds like THEY are the totally depraved persons here.
Excuse me, but i prefer to treat everyone the same and do good to and with everyone. Didn’t someone say that we are grow the weeds with the wheat and let it all work in the harvest. It rains on the just and the unjust. Let it rain brother!
May 23, 2008 at 10:24 pm
sensei jfk
when you throw “calvinists” out there with a question mark, you better bring some heavy artilary, my brutha. In response to Rich, I certainly concure that Calvin counterpointed to “calvinism” is a challenge – Calvin’s magnum opus Institutes of the Christian Religion is much more complex than “TULIP” (equally problematic is the DAISY designation for Arminians). I dont know if I can embrace “I prefer to treat everyone the same and do good to and with everyone” aside from the ending to a Victorian novel. In the world in which we live, this idealized ethic only works from a distance and not in intimate relationships. No matter how you slice it, I dont treat pedophiles and murderers the same at a child’s birthday party… I doubt you can offer a compelling example where this was enacted in real life. Additionally, if you are celebrating diversity and ‘difference’ in your community, then ’sameness’ is akin to hegemony. Lastly, the rain that falls on the just and unjust is acid rain… everyone dies under that rainfall according to the Prophets – this is evoked as the end of the eschaton. If you want THAT rainstorm, we need to start writing obituaries and craving headstones, not singin’ in the rain…
May 23, 2008 at 11:17 pm
jimfox
sensei, with all this talk of acid rain, obituaries and headstones it sounds like you need a hug. Step away from the Elliot Smith records.
May 28, 2008 at 8:38 pm
Doug
Whoa! The sensei overwhelmed me!
I’m sure I have a very simplistic understanding of Calvinism, but wouldn’t a classic Calvinist absolutely disagree with the notion that ‘the reign of God reliant on the participation of humans’? You’re either in or you’re out, at God’s mercy. If I accept predetermination, why not do as I will on earth? My deeds make no difference to my eternal fate, no?
Or is Calvinism not that fatalistic?
May 28, 2008 at 9:40 pm
jimfox
dougo – aren’t you supposed to be working? I believe you are correct in your understanding of Calvinism, but they wouldn’t be so fatalistic as to say “nothing” you do matters – if you thought that way, you obviously wouldn’t be predestined to follow God.
August 21, 2008 at 8:15 pm
ryan
I’m giving Jim and Sensei only Henri Nouwen books from now on. He’s like a kinder, gentler Calvin. Kind of.